Love handles or not?

[Memphis]

I don't want to feel like I may break something if I were to say... wrap my legs around them and squeeze.

I'm sorry, but I didn't get past this part...

[Magdalene]

So is this where I mention I have unusually strong thigh muscles (I'm a horseback rider and a hiker)... Sorry I'm getting off topic!

I'm sorry, but I didn't get past this part...

[Memphis]

So is this where I mention I have unusually strong thigh muscles (I'm a horseback rider and a hiker)... Sorry I'm getting off topic!

And I have unusually large hip bones to settle yer calves on..just sayin'

[KhloeDash]

As mentioned I think a lot of it has to do with health over just image and also confidence and how one carries themselves. I weighed a good hundred pounds more than what anyone would guess or than how I looked and I felt sexy even at that high number. I carry myself well, dress to suit my curves and know both my strengths and my weaknesses. My body is far from perfect and I would love to have "smoother" curves. I've lost almost thirty pounds this month and it's nice to see big changes while keeping my curves. I could never imagine being a small woman and almost six feet tall I never will be, but health is key.

Here's the thing at the end of the day no matter if you're bones like the top row or curvy like the bottom I would guarantee that all of those women have something about themselves that they dislike or would want to change. Probably largely in part to societies views on sexy. So if we can encourage more self love and confidence in all bodies that would make for much sexier, radiant and happy woman

Oh and to actually answer the question; I love my ladies with curves, but I also love them on the smaller end just never without some meat.

[Capt'n_Sparrow]

I'm a strong advocate for the divine female figure and it's pretty spectacular to me in all it's incarnations.

[Jackson Queens]

I like tall, lean muscled women. Professional dancers and athletes really turn me on. Especially those with long arms and long torso....without handles.

[Hazel]

There is ample evidence that demonstrate physical beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. It turns out that the standards (ex. bilateral symmetry, averageness, and secondary sexual characteristics like hip to waste ratio) of beauty are not only the same across individuals and cultures, they are also inborn. If there was a third row of obese ladies there would also be near unanimous agreement that they are as not as physically attractive as the second row ladies. We have not an endemic but a pandemic of young obese ladies in the USA struggling with their eating disorder of overeating and depression because of their obesity. Unfortunately they are probably destined to being prematurely placed in their coffin. Much of this can be also contribute to mass media contribution to poor eating behavior and promoting other life style like the TV shows like Mike and Molly. Obesity in young women is far bigger problem than bulimia and anorexia indicating that any impact of the media on the latter eating disorders are relative insignificant to the impact of the media on obesity

I would also venture the majority of hobbyist would view a third row of obese ladies as unattractive as compared to some of the first row ladies. From my reading of the boards there appears to be more hobby demand for the spinners than the obese or BBW providers yet there are fewer spinners than obese providers. As a result of supply and demand I suspect many hobbyists are more willing to pay a premium to see a spinner than to see an obese provider. This is actual reflect in the different rate structure of a typical spinner and an over weight provider.

Some valid points and some I think you might be a bit off.

There are many providers out there that are spinners that men just don't choose because yes, they prefer what would be classified by society as "obese" women. Personal taste is personal taste and the studies on symetry I believe are based in North America. I was told when I was younger and lamenting my "size" that I should move to *insert several locations* as they lust after larger women. Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder and to a person who is true of heart...deeper then what can be seen on the outside.

Eating disorders in general should be a focus, not overeating and purging, not eating or just plain over overeating. Most women have body image issues and the focus should be "health" nothing more, nothing less. Believe it or not you can be Bulemic and still be large..you can have anorexia and still be large. Eating disorder mess with metabolism in a way that is not only unhealthy it is unpredictable.

Mike and Molly...LOL, I don't think one show that has overweight people as the stars is a huge deal (pun intended). If we blacklisted every show that "promoted" unhealthy living...OMG what would we watch?! LOL OH PBS..but I watch that anyway.

[joab]

Some valid points and some I think you might be a bit off.

There are many providers out there that are spinners that men just don't choose because yes, they prefer what would be classified by society as "obese" women.

What are the valid points?

I never indicated there was not a niche in the hobby for plus size providers. However there is a bigger niche for a fit spinner. There is also a lot more plus size providers than spinners. I made the supply and demand point previously.

I would also venture the majority of hobbyist would view a third row of obese ladies as unattractive as compared to some of the first row ladies. From my reading of the boards there appears to be more hobby demand for the spinners than the obese or BBW providers yet there are fewer spinners than obese providers. As a result of supply and demand I suspect many hobbyists are more willing to pay a premium to see a spinner than to see an obese provider. This is actual reflect in the different rate structure of a typical spinner and an over weight provider.

Moreover, for many hobbyist (especially if they are also plus size) certain sexual positions are very challenging with a plus size provider. It is a big mood killer for many if you have to move the belly out of the way to get access and unless you are well endowed it can be difficult to penetrate from the rear. Also I for one don’t find a plus size lady bouncing on me doing cowgirl to be comfortable or enjoyable.

The proof of this demand is in the rate structure. I have never seen a high-end obese provider but I have seen a lot of spinner that are high-end.

Personal taste is personal taste and the studies on symetry I believe are based in North America. I was told when I was younger and lamenting my "size" that I should move to *insert several locations* as they lust after larger women. Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder and to a person who is true of heart...deeper then what can be seen on the outside.

What you believe is not true. Studies done on diverse culture like India , China and the USA demonstrate the more general constructs of beauty (ex. bilateral symmetry, averageness, and secondary sexual characteristics like hip to waste ratio) applies across cultures. Other studies with infants showed that they are also inborn. I also said this before.

There is ample evidence that demonstrate physical beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. It turns out that the standards (ex. bilateral symmetry, averageness, and secondary sexual characteristics like hip to waste ratio) of beauty are not only the same across individuals and cultures, they are also inborn.

Eating disorders in general should be a focus, not overeating and purging, not eating or just plain over overeating. Most women have body image issues and the focus should be "health" nothing more, nothing less. Believe it or not you can be Bulemic and still be large..you can have anorexia and still be large. Eating disorder mess with metabolism in a way that is not only unhealthy it is unpredictable.

The focus should be on the biggest eating order problems. Overeating as an eating disorder dwarfs other eating disorders. One third of the adult US population is obese resulting in annual medical cost of 150 billion dollars a year. CDC estimates that obesity kills 112,000 Americans per year and is second to the nation's top preventable cause, smoking, of premature death. Bulimia or purging by self induce vomiting, the use of laxatives, and fasting is a responses to binge eating, an overeating disorder. By definition it is not believable that obese women are anorexic.

Mike and Molly...LOL, I don't think one show that has overweight people as the stars is a huge deal (pun intended). If we blacklisted every show that "promoted" unhealthy living...OMG what would we watch?! LOL OH PBS..but I watch that anyway.

I suspect on the inside you are not so jovial and flippant. Can you really be that blind not to see mass media contribution (advertisements) to poor eating behavior leading to obesity of which Mike and Molly is an example of just ONE type?

[Hazel]

1. I agree, you didn't

2. Ummm OK..but that is your personal opinion I have a hard time when people say "many or everyone". OF COURSE aerodynamics plays a part in any physical play, I won't go into the varied ISSUES that could arise for any number of body type combos. I know of plus size women who command high numbers for their time...and get it. More thin women..probably..but again that is because of North American standards of what is beauty and what is valued. ..not a point you argued..just saying.

3. If you had said "some cultures" then I would not have argued the point but India and China do not the world make..in spite of their population. America Samoan men, love curvacious women, African cultures revere larger women...there are other cultures that contribute "beauty" to things others might find odd and that have nothing to do with the things you originally listed, even the size of ones forehead in several cultures. Let's face it..there are no absolutes in any culture.

4. I TOTALLY agree with you, I should have said that I see people with eating disorders in seperate group from those who are overweight due to poor habits. People who struggle with Overeating, Bulimia and Anerxia generally do so for more deep-seeded reasons then what has caused the national overweight epidemic. Truly not all people who undereat are thin. You would be surprised at how eating disorders play out physicaly. It really depends on the persons eating history, body type etc. That is why men and women die daily, their disease goes undetected.
The general obesity we are seeing as a population is not only due to over-eating and portion control, there is a bigger picture..exercise, diet, our culture and life-styles have all affected our waistlines. We have become "I want it now" people and everything has become disposable. IMO these attitudes are huge contributors to this national epidemic. Ask 5 friends if they have microwaves and if so, are they willing to give them up. Most people who give up microwaves shed lbs. because they are more aware of what they are eating but few want to make this very simple sacrifice.

5. I am not sure what my personality has to do with the conversation but...Jovial? Yes I am a happy person. Flippant? yup, I admit, I am a bit of a smart ass. Blind? I have only watched "Mike and Molly" a few times and rather then promoting obesity they seem to focus on the struggle that some people have with food and overeating..again, yes, a problem. There is also one character on the show who smokes pot and someone I know recently commented that they were troubled by that aspect of the show. I can name many shows throughout the years that have had large characters..overweight...I don't see this show as any different. My point was, television as a whole, does not always promote healthy living or behaviours. Media as a whole does not promote HEALTHY body types. When I was a plus size model one week I would be told to starve myself..the next to binge eat....it is RARE that the people we see on magazines or on TV appear as they really are. Funny thing, women in what most would consider a healthy size and body range. Size 6-8 or 10 are NOT desirable models, they book almost no work.
Side note: One of my favorite TV shows is "Jamie Olivers Food Revolution" ..but it seems we in America just don't want to hear how we can take some practical steps to improve our health, it is sad.

I will take it back to "BE HEALTHY" and if you end up being a size 1 then that is what you are...if you are a size 18 then that is what you are.... We all have our "types" people who make our loins quiver and a friend says "REALLY?!" It is my belief that beauty can be found EVERYWHERE, in forms that we may not always see. To deny that, is to close oneself off from so many possibilities.

OH! my response...FYI not all I have said is in refute or even full response to you...moreover, additional thoughts on the subject at hand. i.e. I don't want you to think I am saying...that you are saying/have said.

Peace Out!

[joab]

I know of plus size women who command high numbers for their time...and get it. More thin women..probably..but again that is because of North American standards of what is beauty and what is valued. ..not a point you argued..just saying

Than if you know give examples of local high end provider (charging 350 or more an hour) that are also in the BBW category.

If you had said "some cultures" then I would not have argued the point but India and China do not the world make..in spite of their population. America Samoan men, love curvacious women, African cultures revere larger women...there are other cultures that contribute "beauty" to things others might find odd and that have nothing to do with the things you originally listed, even the size of ones forehead in several cultures. Let's face it..there are no absolutes in any culture.

You need to face it that the stereotype or aphorism that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” has been overturned world wide by evolutionary psychology studies of cultures in the Americas(south, central and north), Europe, Asia , Africa, and Australia. Curvaceous does not mean obese or plus size. Here is an example of curvaceous non-plus size women with the ideal hip to waste ratio of ~ 0.7

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ni_%281%29.jpg

The fact that you and others used the euphemism curve, curvaceous for obese or fat says a lot in itself.

Though, some small preferences change depending on the culture may exist, but for the most part physical attractiveness is relatively similar among people. I have no doubt that even in America Samoa, the above curvaceous women and the likes of Beyonce, Natalie Portman, and Meghan Fox would be found more attractive and desirable than obese woman by nearly all. More important we are hobbying in Seattle not America Saoma.